Plato

Cami

I really, really liked the first ones we read—Apology and Crito. It helped to know from Aristophanes that lawyers were big in the land. It all makes sense—lawyers, politicians, philosophers, sophists—they are all about who can use words the best. And who can trick the public or their opponent into believing (or at least saying) what they believe. But Socrates seemed so different in these first two. I loved when he defended himself against sophistry by stating that the truth needs not embellishment. There IS a true correct opinion. He was a simple speaker, in some sense, and seemed to want to get to the bare truth of the matter at hand. I also loved how he seemed deeply religious, stating that he would obey God rather than man, although he followed the laws of the land (as we see by allowing himself to be killed rather than rescued—if we refuse the laws of the land, all is lost). I wrote at the end of Apology: He sounds like a prophet sentenced to death for preaching repentance. Truth will prevail. Death is not punishment. The Spirit cannot be denied.

Janice

How amazing that Plato (428-348 B.C.) started a school, the Academy, which continued for many centuries. And we still read and teach his ideas. As far as I could make out, I think Plato and his colleagues were trying to figure out things like what truth, virtue, wisdom, common sense, and goodness are, what civilized society should allow, what children should be taught, how to ensure a safe and good society. (Funny how our society doesn't seem to be so concerned with a lot of these things anymore.) They believed in God and gods, in other word, in a higher intelligence than mortal man which was responsible for and interested in their existence, and who they were somewhat accountable to. They also believed in the immortal soul being more valuable than the body, and in an afterlife. I have found it interesting to see what people thought before Christ came and answered a lot of their questions. And it's interesting that a lot of it sounds similar to some scriptures. These were the times, places, and people that were ripe for Christianity. They were searching, searching, searching, trying to figure out the best ways to think and feel and live and improve. They wanted to make sure and do good for the highest motives they could think of. They didn't have all the light, but they were doing the best with what they had.

Julia

Socrates' goal was to teach young men to think clearly and act reasonably. he was accused of introducing new gods and currupting the youth. He is known for his adherence to his convictions and his fearlessness of consequences. The philosophy of his dialogues has remained for over 2000 years one of the greatest intellectual influences of the western world--amirable for literature as well as philosophy. He was more than 70 years old when he appeared in court. "I am that gadfly which God has given the state and all day long and in all places I am always fastening on you, arousing and persuading and re-provoking you." He said that the strong arm of that oppressive power did not frighten him into doing wrong (when he was a senator) "but I went quietly home." Was he referring to going to his Final Home? He said that he would never cease teaching philosophy about wisdom and truth and the greatest improvement of the soul.

Finishing Aristotle

Ok, so we've decided to split up Aristotle so as to get it done.

Julia will be reading Poetics.

Janice will be reading Ethics.

Cami will be reading Politics.

We are setting a deadline. Be done by the end of October. That is all.

Aristophanes

Cami

Well, well. I have just finished Aristophanes. Man, I thought the FIRST one (The Clouds) was full of all sorts of crude and surprising humor! Little did I know what would be in store for me by Lysistrata!

Speaking of translation in general. The notes in my edition were very informative. For example, when characters spoke with country bumpkin accents, the notes informed me that this was their modern way of explaining how the Athenians felt about the Spartans—that they were indeed country bumpkins. And some of the puns and jokes were a little too tidy, until the notes explained that they completely changed the lines in order to get the gist of the joke, rather than the literal translation. Because they so thoroughly modernized, it seemed almost TOO much. We were not Greek-ized in return, so we don’t exactly know how to take it.

And so I am done with Aristophanes, and who knows if I am better for it. I definitely learned some things.

Jan

I have just finished our three comedies by Aristophanes. Whew! That last one, "Lysistrata," was racy! I began to wonder if it was pornographic. But I decided it wasn’t because it wasn’t meant to incite lust (although I suppose it could and might have). But I think its main purpose was for fun, even given the licentious time period. It was just an acceptance of life and a funny exaggeration. Those men were sure silly. Hurray for the women. They were funny, too.

My favorite of the three was "Clouds." Hilarious. I loved how Aristophanes made fun of the sophists. It’s interesting that the first thing required for anyone to be taught at the "Think-shop" was to renounce the gods – another great example of how there is nothing new under the sun. People have always employed cunning words to slant and corrupt things, and to evade the consequences of debt and evildoing. O’J.’s lawyers must have studied this same "science of subtle speech . . . with its measures, words and rhythms!"

As for "Birds" . . . I got what it was about, but whoa, the Moby Dick of bird plays. Imagine the costumes! I guess it was pretty artistic and imaginative, supposedly his masterpiece. I think it showed how it doesn’t really matter what we worship if we don’t worship God. It ends up being a false idol.

Julia

Maybe it's because I am no longer a Saturday Night Live fan or a devotee of Letterman or Leno or even Mad Magazine. I guess I'm just an old fuddy-duddy when it comes to crass satire and the plethora of double meanings and puns that were so constantly evident in Lysistrata. All the double meanings were boringly predictable. When it comes to R-rated stand-up comedy and these plays, nothing much has really changed, has it? Perhaps the 3 plays we read were the precursors to bawdiness and the theatre of the absurd.

I guess I am taking the plays too literally, forgetting that they were created to make fun of the sophists. The Clouds is a caricature of Socrates and The Birds, a portrayal of a flawed utopia called Cloudcuckooland. These plays may have been hilarious in there day, but I didn't really get it. Call me humorless.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War

Cami

The Art of War was actually quite refreshing for me—not just because of the length, but because it was pretty easy to understand, or to ignore if I knew it would never really apply to me unless playing a serious game of laser tag. I actually found many insights into parenting, leading a group or a business team, and other basic social situations. How like war life really is.

[My husband, Jake, likes to play a war-based video game called Call of Duty.] As I would read along, I would find a strategy that Jake was consistently ignoring, resulting in his imminent death (they revive immediately in the gaming world). As I watched and read, I started to give him pointers, and told him he really ought to read this book if he was ever going to make it in this game. How very silly, and yet, fitting.

Anyway, my analysis is that this book was much more relatable and even “fun” to read than I expected it to be. I was expecting my pen to stay firmly planted behind my ear, and yet it was out constantly, underlining, making notes in margins. Who knew?

Janice

I read my Art of War edition in a day. I can see how war can be handled best, better, and not well at all, and how a knowledge of human nature is indispensable. I found myself thinking of the Iliad, Confucious, Herodotus, Thucydides, and war movies I’ve seen.

I like the emphasis on avoiding war altogether being the very best way. But if you have no other choice, it must be fought, with the least danger to life and limb, and with respect to the enemy.

Nothing done out of revenge, vanity, greed, or in a rush. Much of the wisdom can be applied to every day life. Loyalty to ideals above all! My favorite quote has to be:

If you are quiet and inconspicuous, others will not be able to figure you out. If you are accurate and orderly, others will not be able to disturb you.

Julia

The areas that I crossed over to from the subject of war were parenting, sports, tennis strategy, politics, living a life in general and business.

The use of numbers was interesting -- 5 thises, 9 thats. Now all the self-help authors use this method . . .

As pertaining to tennis, I underlined lots. One of my favorites, "Increase your enemy's fear of your ability. Prevent his forces from getting together and organizing."

A good note to sign off on would be, "People need an intelligent leader and a worthy commander." Let us hope we get one in this next election, by the grace of God.

May you continue to be brilliant generals.

Thucydides: The History of the Peloponnesian War

Cami

. . . My fellow warriors, it has been found that our small troops are no match for the Thucydian force, despite our allies in Logan and Pleasant Grove. Though our hearts are strong, and our minds willing, we are unable to defeat our enemies . . . . I know when it is time to retreat and make peace with our oppressors. Would it not be more wise, friends, to create a truce, leaving two books of the seven read, and the rest to be read later—perhaps when other allies in the more manageable lands of Sun Tzu and Plato have been formed? I then propose that we send emissaries to Utah to tell our allies to make peace when they can, that we may move on from these tumultuous waters and protect the alliances we have already made. I fear our abilities to conquer future foes depends on our not giving up, but being wise and retreating while retreat is possible. . . .

Hee hee. This is my clever way of giving up while still showing how much I’ve learned from the portions of Thucydides I actually read. Did it work? Let’s hope so. But reading Thucydides was akin to reading Isaiah chapters in the scriptures to me—in one ear, out the other with the occasional feeling of “whoa” attached to the content.

So I am letting myself finish off just two books and hope I got the general feeling of what Thucydides had to offer. The main thing, I’d say, is the difference between Herodotus and Thucydides. It has been helpful during the election debates, Mom’s return to school where they believe in “selective” history, and the general debate about our current war, to see that things have not changed much since the time Thucydides was doing his best to present the truth.

Janice

Greetings, Atheninans. The recent missive from Camillides persuaded me that we MUST move on. As Pericles said in his famous speech so responsibly and aptly recorded by Thucydides, "What I fear is not the amount we have to read, but our own sluggishness." (Actually, he said, "What I fear is not the enemy’s strategy, but our own mistakes." But the format of the statement seemed to fit.) Like the ancient historian’s, our self-assigned inquiry into the past is a great and important one. But we must not get bogged down in details. Because of the immenseness of our lifetime reading plan, we must do as Thucydides, that is, force ourselves to move from the particular to the universal, from each concrete and specific book to underlying patterns and generalities. And I agree with the Camillian proposal, that perhaps we have reaped what rewards we can from the present siege. Even the first two chapters contain wealth enough. From them we can glean important truths, that human nature is predictably flawed, that history repeats itself, and that humankind could learn from history if it only would. Everyone should read at least some Thucydides!

Julia

My book has been lost in one of the many battles of what seems like a bloody siege of at least 28 years. Anyway I only got through Book 2 and this without memory of victories or defeats, places or names which after a while all became a blur. I found I really didn't care much about the players and it was enough to know in the last analysis that Sparta was victorious over Athens, right? Looking at the map and finding the oft named places, I saw that all these skirmishes happened within a rather small section of the world. I guess it is to Thu's credit that he put all the data down in print, but I'm really not sure how it affects us.

So thank you, great Camillides, for waving the white flag of surrender during our labors in the Pelop. wars so that we might draw our inner-troops together to fight more current and personal wars.

Herodotus: The Histories

September 2007

CAMI

I was really quite surprised at how much I enjoyed reading the book. What an amazing interpretation! I really felt like Herodotus was just a guy telling us some interesting facts while throwing in his own opinion and judgment occasionally. It didn’t feel ancient or unreachable to me. Fabulous.

Cannibalism, prostitution, slavery, murder, greed, war, incest, slander, human sacrifice and desecration, ridiculous rituals and customs, feminism, political scandal, sexual deviance, self-fulfilling prophesy . . . what did these people NOT delve in? And yet there was honor, a general agreement of right and wrong, sophisticated government, community laws and customs, religion, fear of god, and Herodotus giving us his opinion about the morality and probability of it all. It’s amazing how much and really how little has changed in all these years.

JANICE

I really enjoyed this first known social history, learning about the B.C. world with all its barbarisms, weirdnesses, atrocities, and tyrannies, and also its honor, sacrifice, bravery, and love of freedom. I see how whole cultures have come to pass and when it comes to human nature there is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes). EXCEPT one thing: Herodotus did not mention the terrible sexualization of children which we are seeing today. Histories of civilzations all have a lot in common, I suppose because the earth's resources and human nature are timeless. Like I just read in A Canticle for Leibowitz, if everything was destroyed and man started over, the same sort of things would be rediscovered, the same kind of wars fought, the same types of tyrants wrould rise to power, the same train of troubles would evolve. Everyone needs to read Herodotus. He was a wise man, wiser than many of our leaders today. His words help me understand the climate and tone of the times, and how Jesus coming caused such a huge spiritual upheaval.

JULIA

Yay, a few more pages and I'll be done with The Histories, a long and sometimes arduous battle, but full of familiar tales, characters, predicaments, and parallels in my own life as well as history that I have personally witnessed.

Now the tale is told and read. Thank you Herodotus. Thank you translator, Aubrey de Selincourt. The language was colorful and fun to read, H. was a great observer and story-teller, and philosopher. On page 595, "Many things make it plain to me that the hand of God is active in human affairs . . . giving every man greater courage for the coming battle and fiercer determination to risk his life for his country." Amen.

Euripides: Ten Plays

January -- March 2007

CAMI

My friend asked me the other day if I liked reading the Greek stuff, if it was any good. It was sort of a hard question to answer. It’s not my favorite reading material, and I’m not sure I’ll ever revisit it, but my answer was, “Well, I’m learning a lot, and it’s good to have a foundation for modern literature.” And that is true. There is so much in these little plays that contributes to Shakespeare, or modern plays, or even just classic stories and allusions in other literature, that it’s hard to say these are not worth reading.

[Here are some notes from the summaries of each play]: . . . you just never know what consequences your selfish actions will bring (Alcestis). She uses reason and emotion to get what she wants, which is basically for everyone to suffer as she does (Medea). Lives are destroyed for crimes not actually committed. Just our thoughts are enough to destroy us (Hippolytus). I always wonder what those spoils of war are thinking once they are handed over as slaves. It was interesting to see a woman's life (a slave's life) valued in a literary way during this time (Trojan Women). It all just seemed so futile and hypocritical to me (Electra). Don't fight agains the worst sides of yourself, just use them sparingly. Very interesting. It's something we haven't really seen quite this way in the Greeks yet (The Bacchants).

JANICE

I soon saw why Aristotle called Euripides "the most tragic of the poets." Because he portrayed damaged souls at their worst, not how people could or ought to be, we are forced to face the results of raw, unrestrained, and (supposed) irredeemable human nature. Of all the plays we read I liked Hippolytus the best, because it points out that way back in the 400s B.C. people had some very strict rules for sexual morality, even in thought. As the miserable Pheadra who is lusting after her stepson says, "My hands are clean. It is my soul that's fouled." But she has no way out of her sin (no sense of agency and no Savior) except death. I loved this quote: "What brashness has the human heart? How far will it push? Is there any limit to its brazen nerve?" It goes on to say how the gods will have to create a bigger earth to hold all such depraved individuals. I thought Euripides' supposed masterpiece, The Bacchae, was horrific. To me it simply showed how lawlessness leads to loss of all sense of civility and loyalty and results in disorder and bloody, pointless tragedy. How ripe the world was for Christianity!


JULIA

I finished Euripedes last week but have taken so long, I've forgotten the first 4 plays so will have to say I liked BACCHANTS and THE TROJAN WOMEN the most since I actually remember them.

I thought BACCHANTS was the most timely play. I swear this passage, "These were young mothers who had left their infants behind and still had their breasts swollen with milk," mirrored the Britney Spears of our day. The greusome Agave/Pentheus scene when A. doesn't realize she has murdered her own son, scattered pieces of him, mounts his head on the thrysus thinking it is a lion's head, showed to me the blindness and denial of wanton wickedness and drink. It destroys those closest to you while butchering yourself into little pieces.

Sophocles: The Oedipus Cycle

December 2006-January 2007

CAMI

I was really looking forward to reading the Oedipus cycle, since it is still so widely cited today. If you don’t know who Oedipus was and what his problems were, then you are behind the times.

What I thought was interesting about Oedipus Rex was the responsibility taken for something which was not really his fault—or at least intended. In our own lives, we might have learned things from our parents or society that make us behave a certain way without knowing it to be wrong, and yet it destroys and inhibits us nonetheless. Good is good, and bad is bad, no matter the intention. With Oedipus at Colonus, I was much more interested than I expected to be. It was interesting to see Oedipus years later when he’s had time to think of his situation. He felt innocent and yet unworthy at the same time. It seems he has not been able to forgive himself, or it at least shows the damage that some things can do to us, without redemption. Antigone, as a loving daughter, sister, and strong woman, was the easiest character for me to identify with. Antigone is willing to die for what she believes in. Here is a great line: “You will remember what things I suffer, and at what men’s hands, because I would not transgress the laws of heaven.”

Fadiman wrote that Aristotle told that Sophocles said he tried to portray people as they ought to be. (How’s that for removed?) I certainly see that in what we read. A great read, an inspiring story, and an important accomplishment!

JANICE

My favorite of the Oedypus cycle was Antigone, the Joan of Arc of ancient Greece. She never wavered in her religious principles even under intense pressure, even death. Of course this theme has been repeated throughout history, and continues today with Christians being challenged and vilified. The play asks, What if your country (or any other institution you rely on) goes bad? What does the individiual do? Antigone chose to die rather than give up her freedom to do what was right. In Oedipus Rex I liked how he was not afraid to seek the truth at all costs, even when it threatened his own happiness and peace. He found that "he [was] not the measure of all things but the thing measured and found wanting." Our society today often reflects the false idea that humans have no free will -- a devil-made-me-do-it attitude. Then we have Oedipus who was dealt such terrible cards and yet knew he was not a puppet in the end. To me these plays are about free will, saying that man (unless under constraint) is responsible for everything he thinks and does.


JULIA

"Poised on the razor edge of fate" pretty much sums up these plays. Oedipus thought he was circumnavigating the prophecy but instead played directly into it. His heart was in the right place. In the introduction, this passage helped me to understnad our reasons for reading Sophocles and what we can take from it, "Oedipus did have one freedom. He was free to find out or not find out the truth. One freedom was delivered to him: the freedom to search for truth about the prophecies, about the gods, about himself. And of all this freedom he makes full use. . . ." . . . .There are a few things we have absolute control over in spite of the wiles of the gods and life's fateful dealings and that is the things we choose to think--0ur attitude . . . We are seeking the truth about ourselves when we write journals.

The Only Human Freedom

I wonder at all the workings
of fate, predestination, plan,
randomness. Do the gods pull
our earthly puppet strings,
do we move when manipulated?

Or do we resist, pull loose,
exercise what we think is choice
only to find this is also design?
I imagine my father as a boy,
the influences that spawned me.

Who would I be if mother married
another? My head hurts of thinking,
mysteries of DNA, chance, deestiny.
I go to the kitchen, brew tea, sip
warmth in winter, read Sophocles,

pit Oedipus, see life as full
of good fortune and bad, realize
acceptance is the great lesson suffering teaches us and the one
great freedom we all have

is to search
and to find
the heroic and noble
truth
about ourselves.

1/4/07

Aeschylus: The Oresteia

October - November 2006

CAMI

So here is a quote to Jake from me last night: “Go away! This guy is about to kill his mother who killed his father who killed his sister and now the Gods are going to kill him!” Only I was wrong. They didn’t kill him. Instead we have some sort of euphoric ending where Athena distracts the Furies into forgetting about their revenge. Hmmm. . . too bad no one else was distracted. It seems like revenge was the heart of this story.

Here is what I thought of Agamemnon. I thought the whole thing sounded so much like a horrible abuse cycle. Everything was about passing the blame (usually to destiny) and how there was no agency. The Libation Bearers, my favorite. In this one I see both Electra and Orestes try to break the cycle. I see at least some sort of moral conflict rather than everything justice, justice, justice. The Eumenides was just like watching an episode of “Law and Order.” It was all about semantics, persuasion, the battle for glory in the courtroom. This trial stopped being about justice, and started being about who could cause enough confusion for the question to be forgotten.

All in all, I found these plays to be much more accessible to modern days than I thought they would be. I was pleased to see they read so much like Shakespeare (it felt just like reading King Lear, what with all the family members killing each other), but I was really glad of the summary Mom gave me about the family curse.

JANICE

Luckily, my edition's intro explained the family curse or I would have been lost. To me these plays were just one big act of human infamy after another, showing the worst side of humanity. There was not a redeeming quality in anyone. No forgiveness, no patience, no humility, no personal sacrifice, no mercy. Only selfishness, pride, and revenge, which was rightly shown as bad. I guess the gods let Orestes off the hook because he had a good reason to go temporarlily insane. But so did Clytemnestra what with her husband killing her daughter. I think the gods just didn't want to deal with the mess anymore. Even they were at a loss. The story was interesting, what with the proud purple robes entrapping proud Agamemnon, the old lesson that two wrongs don't make a right, how one crime can bring on another and revenge is the worst motivation. Sure glad this was fiction. Horrible! The skeletons in this family's closet beat all.

JULIA

Just finished The Orestia Trilogy by Aeschylus. I liked the last book the best, The Furies. It was like a court case to see if Orestes would be found guilty. I guess it was a hung jury. The plays read like Shakespeare and the more I got into it, the more I liked it, my eyes and inner voice moving along in rhythm to iambic pentameter. It was fun to see some common phrases we use now, like "red-handed." The argument about who is the REAL parent was interesting. The argument favored the father as the mother was merely a womb for his seed. Didn't they know the woman contributed an egg?

My favorite quote form A. is by Electra when she says, "Children are memory's voices, and preserve/The dead from wholly dying, as a net/Is ever by the buoyant corks upheld."

Confucius: The Analects

September-October 2006

CAMI

Cami said: "A gentleman reads those that have come before him, even if they say the same things he finds everywhere else." That is my summary of Confucius. Although I have underlined and written in the margins more in this book than any yet, I found this has been the least "enlightening" so far! Maybe it was the lack of journey, of analogy, of character. We're just supposed to read and ponder these tidbits of truth? And while, yes, many are true, I found few to be profound. . . . This all makes it sound like I hated it--on the contrary, I couldn't put it down. . . . Maybe it was because the truth I found in it was familiar and comfortable.

So anyway, I cam away with what I found to be truth, and let slip out of my mind those things which I did not need. I think the master would approve.

JANICE

I was glad to learn that the man we know as Confucius was Kung Fu, if I understand corrrectly, who taught the ancient arts of self-defense and meditation and oriental philosophy, for want of better terms. . . . I think this was a very wise man with very idealistic and correct ideas in the eternal scheme of things, but not religious. He did not believe that man is fallen and in need of redemption. He believed man was essentially good. He taught people to strive for the loftiest human potential and acto out of the noblest motivations possible. He taught uncommon sense and uncommon goodness, and for that we can be grateful, but he did not teach devotion to or reliance on God.

Nevertheless, I am grateful for Confucius and the like because here we have proof that a standard of goodness has existed for millennia, a standard which is relatively suddenly being uprooted by a few lucky people with influence and power, and replaced with a new standard based only on the whims and proclivities of one generation . . .

JULIA

Reading Confucius was a calm and welcome respite after the bloody battles of The Iliad and the harrowing adventures of The Odyssey. As I read, I was amazed at the desire by C.'s followers to record all those ideas on how to be a good person. Do very many people care about that anymore? Just the idea that these suggestions and rules were important to the ancients gives me hope that all civilizations have had good and virtuous people striving to be better. It made me want to be better.

I got the idea that actually living these virtues was more of a goal than a reality. It was like reading distilled scripture without the parables, the cast of characters, the geography and the long chpaters. . . . May we all try for this enlightenment and perhaps make up our own 5 good and 4 bad rules.

Homer: The Odyssey

September-November 2006

CAMI

Well, if The Iliad was like hiking a mountain, then The Odessy was like a mountain bike ride down it: it’s bumpy, it’s a little scary, but it’s much faster. Not to mention it’s much more exciting. I think knowing the background and war-based culture of the characters was helpful in understanding the sort of moral-free glory hunting that occurred in the story, and allowed me to concentrate on the adventure.

What struck me the most about all this, was his attitude about it. We, as readers, know how involved the gods were in each voyage and each danger Ulysses encountered. And yet when he talked with Minerva face to face, he asked why she had left him alone. He had boasted in his own strength. He thought he truly was the hero of his own life. Even in the Iliad we knew that neither side could win without the grace of the gods. It’s funny how easily Ulysses forgot his own weakness. But Minerva forgave his weakness and restored him to his kingdom. Parallels every which way in this story.

JANICE

. . . I agree with Cami on how different the two books are in tone and setting. The Iliad was more crashing armor and blood and dust and death while the Odyssey wias more yearning, cunning, relationships, intrigue, ocean. Is this Sea vs. Earth? Yin vs. Yang? Masculine vs. Feminie? Opposition in all things?

I just found something I wrote in my journal a few weeks ago. "In this reading I'm doing . . . I feel as if I have joined up with the part of the human race most valuable to know. The best of the great thinkers are alike in the most important ways. Having read (at last) the Iliad and the Odyssey, I am no longer in the dark when references are made which they more frequently than expected are. When this happens it's like meeting an old friend in turning a corner, and knowing immediately who they are inside even though the conversation is shallow and superfluous. It makes me smile with a certain intellectual glee and surprised gratitude. It is not my doing but some act of grace that I should have this little joy. Things MEAN something now. Thank you."

JULIA

Yay! I just finished The Odyssey, all 324 pages. What a trip it has been. . . . Most of the adventures were familiar. One thing I found quite interesting was the double standard issue. Penelope waits two decades, faithful the whole time, and Odysseus never apologizes or even admits his indescretions. . . . Apparently P. was one tough Mom, being the sole parent to bring up her son. . . . I understand P. a little because when my husband went for months at a time to Guam and I had the responsibility of children and household, it took me a while to let the resentment go and I was hard as flint when he would return home.

MARATHON ODYSSEY

First Half

Even before rosy-fingered dawn,
I hear Sirens' tempting strain,
disuading me to honor my pledge,
but I know day is full of promise,
with favorable winds, fated skies.

And so it is I meet with others
similarly equipped for journeying
with their fierce jaws of determination
and their layered disposable armour
suitable to fend off iciness of morn.

Gods blow at our backs, this sea of life,
canyon road smooth like silver water
under first rays of golden sun,
our bodies afloat, legs churning
to move us gloriously through the miles

Second Half

I notice how all of us seem lost
in our own struggle, central to ourselves,
each toiling life no small matter
but one of great and mythic concern.
I glimpse islands of distraction,
doubtful thoughts of victory arise.

As if Zeus hears my mind, he sends Athene
to cause a honeyed pear to fall to me.
I see it there glistening under a tree
unmarred on its bed of gentle grass,
nectar-sweet, a gift of sustaining grace.

Energy replaces confusion, fear
fruit a sign I will taste sweet
success. I feel myself being weaved
into the loom of other lives
as on and on we run toward Ithaca.

Top of Utah Marathon
Logan, UT 9-23-06

Homer: The Iliad

July 2006

CAMI

Jake asked me if The Iliad was good and after a long pause I said, "I don't know how to respond to that question." I guess I didn't have in mind that I was reading for pleasure. However, unlike some books I've read for pleasure, I did look forward to picking it up, I did enjoy reading it (even though it often put me to sleep), and I do feel like I've accomplished something. So I guess that makes it a "good" book. I'm not sure I actually get to make that judgment for the world, but for myself, I'm glad I have conquered it.

No one was really noble, good, or especially more heroic than anyone else. I was glad to know that as this story was told orally, the audience was made up of people from all over, so each of their local heroes were given their day in the sun. I could appreciate more the new and short-lived characters knowing that they were there for a reason. But, Achilles or Hector . . . who am I rooting for? Even Zeus didn't know the answer to that question. . . . But to me, it seemed like the mortals were at the mercy of the will of the ever-changing gods. Really, the only thing you could do is try to make good decisions, give the glory to the gods, and hope their will is for you to conquer in the end. What do you know. It has more application than I realized.

JANICE

Aside form all the craziness, I feel good about making this effort. I am getting a teeny tiny inkling of how the ancient Greeks had their effect on western civilization in the last 3000 years. Homer pulls no punches in exposing human nature. Even his gods and goddesses and kings and heros are pathetically petty and flawed, always wanting glory, jumping to conclusions, worried about what everyone else thinks about them, self-interested above all. Isn't mankind still dealing with these same old issues? It gives you a sense of timelessness and spacelessness, like Mom alluded to in her letter. We are all children of one God and this earth is really a very small place.

JULIA

I'm almost finished with this marathon of a book. It reminds me of reading Moby Dick. I felt so virtuous. The patterns of defeat, battle, victory, intervention, fate, ego, greed, power, violence, continue with each page. It is all becoming familiar, especially the constant metaphors and when I pick it up to read, it is like something I've read before, mythical, like our own unpredictable lives. Because of the gods, wounded warriors can be miraculously healed. Responsibility still rests on the soldiers, the care to put on their armour and helmets, to hold up their shields.

In the Beginning . . .

Some notes from the conception of our club:

CAMI:

I am personally glad to be on this journey with members of at least two of those thousands of lifetimes I have not led. I think three generations of ideas, experiences, and emotions is just about as good as we're going to get, and I will appreciate learning from our accumulated knowledge, as well as from that of the world. . . So, fellow learners, sisters, and matriarchs of my life, I am ready to find these timeless truths with you. I'll try to keep copies of all our correspondence in a safe place. What an amazing record we'll have!!! Let's follow through! Let's encourage each other! Let's also be patient with ourselves, because I've tried to read Don Quixote before, and it's no picnic.

JANICE

. . . I am looking forward to starting a special little journal for this project to keep these letters and any other insights organized somewhat. I loved drawing and painting my map of the world in my Giant Journal. Without being perfectionistic, I tried to get the shapes and proportions right and learned a lot about the relationships of the countries and the finiteness of our world. We learn so much more by applying our own hand.

JULIA

As I worked on my hand drawn map of the world, I had a few thoughts. I am a little person living in an isolated little bubble. All of us in this world have in common the classics. This fact alone should pop that bubble and help to make us feel closer to each other. . . . I have so much to learn about the world, the words that have been written and the philosophies that have emerged. . . . It is very thrilling to begin on a course of study that I have been neglecting. Thanks to C. Fadiman, I understand why the classics are an important part of our heritage. I plan to be diligent, but not hyper, kind to myself, not critical at how dumb I am. . . . Let's share our insights and enjoy this great conversation. Read or scim, concentrate on what really speaks to us and remember this is a LIFETIME reading plan.

Time for Serious Blogging

Ok, the Classics Club has had our first in-person meeting since beginning our quest for education. We set a few time goals, and made plans for our on-line publication plan. So here it is:

We will continue to write our letters to the three members at the end of each book. However, now we are all going to TRY to remember to write a paragraph summary at the end of the letter that will be used for posting on the blog. I, Cami, am going to back-blog our other letters, using whichever excerpts of the letters I deem exciting and informative. This may take some time. Be patient.

SO, that means, that not only will the three of us be able to view our accomplishments and insights at a glance, but those of you who may be checking in on us from time to time will be able to get a little review of each book as we go along. It will not be comprehensive, but it will be semi-informative at least.

Good luck to me, and to us being able to get through Thucidytes in one month!! Sheesh!

Time Goals

Ok, kids. It's been almost one year since we began this journey, and we are not yet half done with Part One! So, here's my suggestion.

It looks like, reading about one author per month, we could finish each Part in about 2 years. We can choose selections, or read excerpts of some assignments (like Shakespeare, Complete Works). Parts Four and Parts Five will probably take us even longer, although we've read many of them already--but we want to add to it.

So, we can make 2 years per section as our goal. That means we have until next July to finish Part One. That also means we'd be done in 10 years. I think that is a reasonable time limit. Can we do it? Let's get going. We've had our nice little break, now get reading The Histories.

Ok, love you all, bye bye.

I suggest we put up a Classics for Kids section on this blog. I have a good politically incorrect list to start with: The Atkinson-Ravitch Sampler of Classic Literature. I'd like to make my way through this, too, and have it available to parents and children. The thing is, kids are no longer exposed to most of the great books in schools because schools DO NOT REQUIRE teaching the classics anymore. It's up to the teacher. Crazy! See The Language Police, How Pressure Groups Restrict What Students Learn by Diane Ravitch, 2003.

A Shakespeare a Year

My friend and I really enjoyed our book group's discussion on King Lear so much that we've decided we should at least read one Shakespeare per year. In the classics club, we are advised to read the entire Shakespeare collection, and I find, this might be a good way to get a head start. Since we also love to discuss things our our online bookgroup, we think we'll suggest it as alternate reading. Perhaps Shakespeare in the Summer or something. As soon as I know which work we'll be reading, I'll post it here.

I haven't posted ANY reactions to any of the classics we've read so far, but if you're reading along, we're now on Euripides. I'll post comments soon.

Reading the Classics

Welcome! The classics club invites you to read along with us through the classic writers and thinkers of the world. For more information, see "Our Mission" on the left side of this blog. This project uses in part the book The New Lifetime Reading Plan by Clifton Fadiman and John S. Major. We will be adding a few authors, maybe taking a few out, but we hope we will cover anything worthy of attention. It should be noted that we may not agree with everything listed as reading material, but we feel it is important to know the information that has shaped the world we live in. I hope you will leave comments and enjoy learning with us!

Part One

1. Anonymous, 2000 B.C., The Epic of Gilgamesh.
2. Homer, 800 B.C., The Iliad.
3. Homer, 800 B.C., The Odessy.
   
4. Confucius, 551-479 B.C., The Analects.
   
5. Aeschylus, 525-456 B.C., The Oresteia.
6. Sophocles, 496-406 B.C., Oedupus Rex, Oedipus at Colonus, Antigone.
   
7. Euripedes, 484-406 B.C., Alcestis, Medea, Hippolytus, The Trojan Women, Electra, The Bacchae.
   
8. Herodotus, 484-425 B.C., The Histories.
   
9. Thucydides, 470/460-400 B.C., The History of the Peloponnesian War.
   
10. Sun-tzu, 450-380 B.C., The Art of War.
    
11. Aristphanes, 448-388 B.C., Lysistrata, The Clouds, The Birds.
    
12. Plato, 428-348 B.C. Selected Works.
13. Aristotle, 384-322 B.C., Ethics, Politics, Poetics.
    
14. Mencius, 400-320 B.C., The Book of Mencius.
    
15. Attributed to Valmiki, 300 B.C., The Ramanyana.
    
16. Attributed to Vyasa, 200 B.C., The Mahabharata.
    
17. Anonymous, 200 B.C., The Bhagavad Gita.
    
18. Ssu-ma Ch'ien, 145-86 B.C., Records of the Grand Historian.
19. Lucretius, 100 B.C., Of the Nature of Things.
20. Virgil, 70-19 B.C., The Aeneid.
    
21. Marcus Aurelius, 121-180, Meditations.
    

Part Two

1. Saint Augustine, 354-430, The Confessions.
2. Kalidasa, 400, The Cloud Messenger and Sakuntala.
   
3. Revealed to Muhummad, 650, The Koran.
4. Hui-neng, 638-713, The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch.
5. Firdausi, 940-1020, Shah Nameh.
   
6. Sei Shonagon, 965-1035, The Pillow-Book.
   
7. Lady Murasaki, 976-1015, The Tale of Genji.
   
8. Omar Khayyam, 1048-?, The Rubaiyat.
   
9. Dante Alighieri, 1265-1321, The Divine Comedy.
   
10. Luo Kuan-chung, 1330-1400, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
    
11. Geoffrey Chaucer, 1342-1400, The Canterbury Tales.
    
12. Anonymous, 1500, The Thousand and One Nights.
    
13. Niccolo Machiavelli, 1469-1527, The Prince.
    
14. Francois Rabelais, 1483-1553, Gargantua and Pantagruel.
    
15. Attributed to Wu Ch'eng-en, 1500-1582, Journey to the West.
    
16. Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, 1533-1592, Selected Essays.
17. Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, 1547-1616, Don Quixote.